books http://www.dregston.com/boards/list.php?16 Wed, 08 Sep 2010 04:54:51 -0600 Phorum 5.2.7 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,32822,32822#msg-32822 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,32822,32822#msg-32822
Her writing is hilarious and she made some really good points about, as Linden would say, going Green. I was inspired to try it since it made sense to me and I have already lost 3 unnecessary pounds in a week with 15 to go. The real bonus is that I am feeling a lot better. Now if only I could win the lottery, things would really be great. You might just give it a look see.

Yrs aff’ly,
Shrinking Linda]]> LindaFern Potter Wed, 01 Sep 2010 09:23:11 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,32677,32677#msg-32677 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,32677,32677#msg-32677
My library has many copies of it and since it is so popular, I had to wait my turn to lay my hands on one. My personal problem is this – my time is so limited that for the last 3 weeks I managed to read about on half of it. So when I went to renew it, I was not able to due to the fact that there was a hold already on it. So the kind librarian put a hold on it for me since I expressed a desire to finish it. Now that I am senile I find that I have to take notes as I read in order to keep the characters straight in my mind. So I noted the page where I left off and can continue from there.

As for the story itself, I can relate to it very well. I recognize many names and places. It is almost in my time period of life, but not exactly, as I grew up slightly before the time setting. I don’t know if it would mean anything to someone not of Southern extraction – oops, Jane did like it very well indeed. So maybe it does speak to lots of you.

I will try to write a bit more when I finish it with some details. That is, if I feel up to it. Right now, it is as if I am on a roller coaster where I feel okay one day and not so hot the next.

At any rate this is to let you know that if the book interests you, I do highly recommend it. I would be remiss if I did not take the opportunity to say again a big “Thank you, Linden” for opening my eyes to my prejudices. You can see the Amazon blurb here: The Help

Yrs aff’ly,
Linda]]> LindaFern Potter Wed, 11 Aug 2010 16:27:49 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,32436,32436#msg-32436 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,32436,32436#msg-32436 The Fates of human Societies by Jared DiamondI recently finished this book. It made me look at the world in a different way,has anyone else read it?]]> Patti Potter Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:57:36 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,32406,32406#msg-32406 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,32406,32406#msg-32406
Elizabeth passed quietly out of the room, Jane and Kitty followed, but Lydia stood her ground, determined to hear all she could; and Charlotte, detained first by the civility of Mr. Collins, whose inquiries after herself and all her family were very minute, and then by a little curiosity, satisfied herself with walking to the window and pretending not to hear. In a doleful voice Mrs. Bennet thus began the projected conversation. -- ``Oh! Mr. Collins!'' --]]> Diane Margaret Potter Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:09:27 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,32063,32063#msg-32063 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,32063,32063#msg-32063 www.time.com]

I read this article in Time a few weeks ago and am trying to get my family to read it because they continue to roll their eyes at my Twitter activities.

While Twitter isn't for everyone, the article does a good job of burying the common notion that people only tweet about what they had for lunch.

I'm getting together for coffee this Friday with a Boulder author I met via Twitter--turns out we have a lot in common, that is if she doesn't turn out to be an axe murderer afterall :)]]> JaneGS Potter Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:04:33 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31985,31985#msg-31985 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31985,31985#msg-31985 [www4.ncsu.edu]]]> Linden Potter Mon, 02 Aug 2010 12:42:55 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31688,31688#msg-31688 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31688,31688#msg-31688
[poetry.eserver.org]]]> Diane Margaret Potter Mon, 24 May 2010 19:04:20 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31641,31641#msg-31641 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31641,31641#msg-31641
A thought just occurred to me, (and it should have before) that maybe there was another little Austen jab here.

Let us presume that if a gentleman was in attendance, then surely a gentleman would 'do the right thing' and ask the wallflowers for a dance.

Of course then by this definition, those who asked ladies to dance were gentlemen, and those men who did not were thereby not gentlemen.

Thus, the number of men was of no consequence, since being male is a necessary but not sufficient condition for being a gentleman.

Even if men outnumbered ladies by ten to one, the fact that some ladies were in want of a partner meant that (real) gentlemen were scarce.

I note in this context that Darcy referred to '...young ladies slighted by other men...'.

I don't think that Darcy would have had the thoughts above, but maybe the author herself puts this word in his mouth quite judiciously as a precursor to the '...more gentlemanlike manner...' accusation he gets flailed with later on.]]> Marks Potter Sun, 23 May 2010 14:46:42 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31501,31501#msg-31501 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31501,31501#msg-31501 Pride and Prejudice and Vampires, Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters,, Darcy's Vampire Desires (!) and probably others I don't remember or didn't notice. And then today, at Borders, there they were: Little Vampire Women and Little Women and Werewolves. 8-)

(scream)]]> Gina Potter Mon, 24 May 2010 15:33:53 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31406,31406#msg-31406 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31406,31406#msg-31406 Yiyi Potter Wed, 19 May 2010 13:13:12 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31309,31309#msg-31309 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31309,31309#msg-31309 "Beware my sting thou errant full-gorged baggage" sound fitting?

[www.petelevin.com]]]> LisaRS Potter Sun, 02 May 2010 06:35:22 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31221,31221#msg-31221 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31221,31221#msg-31221 Emma and am once again bowled over by Miss Austen's use of the language. In chapter 42 she describes Emma's vexation at Mr. Weston after he changed their plan for a small outing to Box Hill into a much bigger excursion.

"Every feeling was offended; and the forbearance of her outward submission left a heavy arrear due of secret severity in her reflection,on the unmanageable good will of Mr. Weston's temper."

(rofl)...unmanageable good will!

Let's try to recall other such hidden gems.]]> Patti Potter Sat, 01 May 2010 15:37:13 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31172,31172#msg-31172 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31172,31172#msg-31172 Lost States: True Stories of Texlahoma, Transylvania, and Other States That Never Made it is now on my must-read list.

The blog where I learned about it is pretty interesting too: [landlibrary.wordpress.com]

I think I might have enjoyed hailing from Nickajack.]]> JaneGS Potter Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:00:48 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31100,31100#msg-31100 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31100,31100#msg-31100 www.nytimes.com] :

***start quote***
A rare copy of Jane Austen’s “Emma,” signed by the author, has sold for almost $500,000, according to the BBC News. This three-volume first edition, below, published in 1816, was one of 12 presentation copies that the publisher, John Murray, allotted to Austen for friends and family. Austen originally gave this copy to Anne Sharp, her friend and the inspiration for the character of Mrs. Weston in the novel. In 2008 Jonkers Rare Books in Henley-on-Thames, England, bought the book for a little more than $273,000 at the Bonhams auction house in London. Last week Jonkers announced that it had sold the book to a British collector it did not identify. “The important thing is the signature of Jane Austen to her best friend,” Christiaan Jonkers, director of the booksellers, told The Henley Standard. “That’s what moves it from being a £20,000 book to a £300,000 book.”
***end quote***

It had never crossed my mind that there might exist signed copies of JA's novels. I wonder if there exist signed copies of each of the six novels? Now *that* would be a collection worth having -- one of each!.

I offer the thought to anyone in search of a McGuffin to drive a story. A master thief engaged to steal one of each of the six, for a shadowy anonymous principal that turns out to be.....who?

It wouldn't be me, at least. If I owned a signed copy of Emma, I'd probably wind up dropping it into the tub. Oh the shame and woe.]]> Warren Potter Tue, 06 Apr 2010 11:35:41 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31019,31019#msg-31019 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,31019,31019#msg-31019 Patti Potter Sun, 04 Apr 2010 18:03:25 -0600 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30867,30867#msg-30867 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30867,30867#msg-30867 El Camino, the most charming coming of age novel I have ever read. His name just reminds me of happy days in Spanish class; seems like a century ago when I was last there...que lastima...]]> Gina Potter Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:21:52 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30797,30797#msg-30797 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30797,30797#msg-30797 Gilead by Marilynne Robinson. I am only about a third of the way through Don Quixote but they are going to discuss Gilead on the Guardian CIF (comment is free) Belief book club, in a few weeks, so I figured Don Quixote could wait a bit longer.

Anyone read it? I am currently reading the companion novel Home.

If you haven't read them Gilead is in the form of a long, rambling letter an old preacher is writing to his young son in 1956. Ames the (I think Congregationalist) preacher has a heart condition so he starts to tell his son the things he will not be around to tell him as the boy grows up, about his family history - his grandfather, also a preacher was a ferocious abolitionist who rode with John Brown, spiritual advice etc. But he gets side tracked with his own theological musings (or, perhaps, theologically couched self-justifications) and, particularly, worries about Jack, the wayward son of his old friend,Boughton the Presbyterian minister. Ames is Jack's godfather but has never been comfortable with him. Jack comes back to ruffle the complacent holiness of Ames's life and the dull, rather smug peace of Gilead, a small Iowa town.

Home, which I have just started, covers the same period in the same town but is told in the third person and is mostly seen so far from the point of view of Glory, Jack Boughton's sister who has returned home to care for her elderly and fading father. Jack has also now returned but wheras he comes in and out of Gilead, only becoming a dominant theme towards the end, he is already very central in the life of Glory and her father.

I won't go into them any more now. As I say I am reading them for the CIF discussion at the end of the month. But I wondered who else has read them.

I am very impressed with Robinson as a writer. I don't, so far, think she is quite so brilliant as many people seem to. But that is only because the hype is really overwhelming (I have seen her described as the best living writer of prose, for example)

I do have a few niggles but I won't express them yet because one in particular might effect how much someone enjoyed the book if I mentioned it (it popped into my head half way through and had that effect on me) so if anyone is planning to read it I don't want to say anything now.

So has anyone read it, or is anyone planning to? Linda, might be your sort of books which is probably not true of a lot of things I like to read.]]> Spencer Potter Sat, 06 Mar 2010 07:44:15 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30755,30755#msg-30755 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30755,30755#msg-30755
Prosthetic Conscience
Irregular Apocalypse
No More Mr. Nice guy
Clear Air Turbulence - I nearly called my boat this instead of Redshift (from Samuel Delany's =Nova=)
Just Read the Instructions
So Much for Subtlety
Fate Amenable to Change
The Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival - I like the ring of this one
Funny, It Worked Last Time
Just Another Victim of the Ambient Morality
Synchronize Your Dogmas
All Through with This Niceness and Negotiation Stuff
You May Not Be the Coolest Person Here
Experiencing a Significant Gravitas Shortfall - another good one
It's My Party and I'll Sing If I Want to
Lightly Seared on the Reality Grill - still another good one

Clearly, Ships have a sense of humor in the Culture-verse (-: But also, if you haven't read Banks as yet, you have an idea of his sense of humor as well & I would hazard, enough information to know if you would like to follow up or not!

kk]]> Snarkhunter Potter Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:10:15 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30545,30545#msg-30545 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30545,30545#msg-30545 Northanger Abbey. Whenever I read Northanger Abbey, I also read a marvelous paper that was published in Persuasions, The Jane Austen Journal, No. 20 (1998), a publication of the Jane Austen Society of North America. It's titled "The Case of the Petulant Patriarch" and its author is Kenneth W. Graham, a professor at the University of Guelph. Several years ago, I asked Dr. Graham if I could have his permission to scan and post his article, since JASNA didn't include it in their online collection. He granted that permission, provided that JASNA approved. After obtaining approval from JASNA, I moved on to other projects and never got around to posting the paper.

After reading it again last night, I decided that my Austen friends would enjoy Dr. Graham's article, so I scanned it and here it is.

"The Case of the Petulant Patriarch" is a speculative look at General Tilney's military career and how it shaped him. In his paper, Graham sets out to "shadow General Tilney, the petulant patriarch."

"He is a puzzling figure, not only in what he is but in what he represents: we meet a man, overconfident, stubborn, selfish, petulant, who in his accomplishments and influence represents the upper levels of British authority. Shadowing General Tilney through his army career and his life as a husband, father, and landowner will bring us into contact with the tensions of his times and with what may well be the real mystery to be solved, the mystery of Jane Austen's position in the ideologically uneasy epoch of the 1790s that engendered Northanger Abbey. The novel's attitude to its times and to the social and political hegemony of a particular patriarchal class is the mystery to be unraveled."

I found Graham's assumptions about the campaigns that General Tilney participated in to be interesting reading in their own right--from the Seven Years War (1756-63) to one of the ten thousand British troops that joined Prince Ferdinand of Brunswick in Westphalia in 1759 to joining General Howe at Staten Island. After outlining the possible military career of General Tilney as well as his son, Captain Frederick Tilney, Graham moves on to show how the "Campaign to Capture Catherine" is executed as a military campaign. Graham also has a terrific discussion of the death of chivalry and how the social tensions of the time are reflected and commented upon in the novel.

It's a wonderful article and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.]]> JaneGS Potter Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:02:51 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30436,30436#msg-30436 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30436,30436#msg-30436
***start quote***

WESTMORELAND

O that we now had here
But one ten thousand of those men in England
That do no work to-day!

KING HENRY V

What's he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin:
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires:
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England:
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more, methinks, would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

***end quote***

Question 1: Consider the lines “We would not die in that man's company / That fears his fellowship to die with us.” It would have made perfect sense for Harry to say “That fears to die with us.” What is the force of the longer line that Harry actually delivers, namely “That fears his fellowship to die with us”?

Question 2: Later comes the line, “Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,”. What exactly is the meaning of the phrase “yet all shall be forgot”? Among other things, who is doing the forgetting? Is Harry saying that human society/history eventually forgets everything? That isn’t consistent with his later avowal that his band of brothers will be remember’d until the ending of the world; such a reflection would also seem weirdly out of place in an inspirational speech to the troops. If “yet all shall be forgot” refers to the forgetfulness of old men, what does it add to the immediately preceding “Old men forget”? Moreover, the phrase begins “yet”, which strongly implies a contrast; where’s the contrast?

In passing, I may say that anyone who hasn’t seen Kenneth Branagh’s film adaptation of Henry V should consider doing do so. Here’s a clip of this speech, : [www.youtube.com] .]]> Warren Potter Tue, 02 Mar 2010 21:36:03 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30409,30409#msg-30409 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30409,30409#msg-30409
If I go the the lecture, I'll report on it next week.

Here's one of Merwin's famous poems:

For The Anniversary Of My Death by W. S. Merwin

Every year without knowing it I have passed the day
When the last fires will wave to me
And the silence will set out
Tireless traveller
Like the beam of a lightless star

Then I will no longer
Find myself in life as in a strange garment
Surprised at the earth
And the love of one woman
And the shamelessness of men
As today writing after three days of rain
Hearing the wren sing and the falling cease
And bowing not knowing to what]]> Bruce Potter Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:18:00 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30395,30395#msg-30395 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30395,30395#msg-30395 Dr Zhivago. A very interesting beast of a book.

Boris Pasternak is accounted one of Russia's greatest poets. And it is definitely a poet's book . For one thing he is pretty incompentent as a novelist.

That might be a bit harsh, but he is by normal standards. The plotting is dreadful, mired in constant coincidences so ridiculous that though the action spans Siberia to the front against Germany in two world wars there only actually seem to be about thirty people in the the country. Indeed, this was so bad that towards the end, when someone turns up in the country house Zhivago is holed up in, I guessed who it was (even though we had been told he was dead) and when this guy (Antipov) talks about his adventures and about meeting up with a boy who betrayed him, I guessed who that would turn out to be too. Indeed, about the only story that rivals it for coincidence is the coach scene in Love and Friendship where Laura finds all her family and acquaintance are on the same coach.

Not that that is the only problem. Bald exposition mars the first part in particular, of the sort that sci-fi fans call "info dump." And this nearly stopped me reading it. But I am very glad I persevered.

Partly this is because the subject matter, by which I mean the struggle of coping with the revolution and surviving in a world gone mad, rather than the love affair with Lara, was so interesting. Love affairs with women called Lara are overrated in my view, though it is possible that I am biased as Lara is my ex-wife's name.

Yuri's (Zhivago's) love affairs are moving at times but more in a poetic way than a novelistic way*. There are bits when he describes her doing the laundry that call to mind a Vermeer or Rembrandt painting.


In fact, despite being in translation, and clearly being something of a shadow of the language of the original, there are parts that are extraordinarily evocative. In the end I found it well worth the coincidences and info dumping.

It was odd reading it straight after The Road which was also, though in a different way, an odd combination of the moving and memorable and the risible.

But also because there are bits that are quite similar. Yuri makes several journeys across blasted lands but the most obviously Road like is when he escapes the Brotherhood of the Forest and follows the railway across Siberia. There are lots of dead, abandoned trains along the way.

"Immobilised for good, and buried in the snow they stretched almost uninterruptedly for miles on end. Some of the served as fortresses for armed robbers or as hide outs for escaping criminals or political fugitives - the involuntary vagrants of those days - but most of them were communal mortuaries, mass graves of the victims of cold and of the typhus raging all along the railway line and mowing down whole villages in its neighbourhood.
In those days it was true, if ever, that 'man is a wolf to man". Traveller turned off the road at the sight of traveller, stranger meeting stranger killed for fear of being killed. There were isolated incidences of cannibalism. The laws of human civilisation were suspended. The laws which men obeyed were jungle laws; the dreams they dreamed were the dreams of pre-historic cave dwellers."

*It may just be that I am too Anglo Saxon for Russian sentiment. I doubt I have read any Russian novels without at some point muttering to one of the characters: "have you considered pulling yourself together (and possibly drinking a bit less vodka)?" The subtle and restrained to the point of emotional constipation of Japanese stories resonates much more powerfully with me.]]> Spencer Potter Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:20:05 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30347,30347#msg-30347 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30347,30347#msg-30347
Of course "Catcher" is a memorable book, but is a book for Peter Pans who do not want to grow up. And perhaps it is by Peter Pan too, for I understand that almost all of his other output concerns children who are too darn sensitive to face adulthood. (Besides "Catcher", I only read a few of the "Nine Stories;" I once started a story in another collection that concerned the Glass family and did not finish it.)

Salinger is in a way an anti-Jane Austen. The theme of adulthood versus childishness predominates in his work (or at least in "Catcher"), and is a strong theme in JA's, but Salinger sides with the children and JA sides with the adults.

"Catcher" has worn well in the 50 years since it was published. I wonder whether it will still be known in another 50 years. I suppose that's a function of societal changes that cannot be predicted.]]> Warren Potter Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:30:55 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30339,30339#msg-30339 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30339,30339#msg-30339 www.paperbackswap.com]]]> Gina Potter Wed, 24 Feb 2010 06:18:09 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30147,30147#msg-30147 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30147,30147#msg-30147 The Road. I probably wouldn't have read it if I had not got it for a Christmas present as I was pretty underwhelmed by No Country For Old Men. But I have to say it is very good. Compelling is probably the best word. Gripping, relentless, scary and grim.

Which is not to say it is without its faults. The main one for me is McCarthy's regular lapses into self-consciously literary codswallop. This gets worse towards the end.

"At some reckonable and entabled moment? He is coming to steal my eyes. To fill my mouth with dirt." Or, how about:

"The ponderous counterspectacle of things ceasing to be. The sweeping waste, hydroptic and coldly secular. The silence."

Of course, it is this pseudo-literary prose (along with his annoying refusal to use inverted commas, commas, apostrophes etc) that has made him the darling of the literary critics rather than seen him relegated to good thriller writer (No country For Old Men) or post-apocalypse Sci-Fi writer.

In fact, it seems to me that McCarthy has cracked it pretty thoroughly. By writing gripping yarns with lots of action and blood in pretentious prose (but not being pretentious in the important, actiony bits) he has produced books that are readable, not to say gripping, but which literary critics don't feel that they have to disdain as proper literature. It is a very cunning plan. The critics don't have to wade through anything difficult or long but get to feel they are doing something other than reading a thrilling piece of genre fiction. It took me a while to warm to it because of the literary conciets but in the end I think my attitude is good luck to him. Most importantly the images are really compelling and I will remember some of them for a long time. And the relationship between The Man and The Boy keeps it from being unreadably awful and, I think, is generally well drawn.

It has some minor plausibility problems, the greatest I won't mention as it is impossible to do so without bad spoilers. But nothing on the scale of superhuman villain in No Country for Old Men who incomprehensibly wanders around armed with a humane killer.

No Country for Old Men reminded me very much of Jim Thompson's The Getaway which is a gripping little thriller marred by a completely daft ending.

The Road is a much better book IMO. More memorable, more vividly written (when not getting too poncified) and more moving.

Not quite as good as all the critics seem to think, but pretty damn good all the same.

One thing I am wondering as I have only read two of his books is is he always completely humourless? You would think any story with cannibalism in it would have at least a few laughs but no, not a hint of any sense of humour anywhere. Of course, the contrast to the relentless grimness is provided by The Man and Boy's caring relationship, but I don't recall there being any humour in No Country for Old Men either. And that had a completely daft panto villain.]]> Spencer Potter Sun, 17 Jan 2010 11:16:17 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30132,30132#msg-30132 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30132,30132#msg-30132
Contrast this with the adventures of Captain Wentworth, where we know he captured a frigate without any idea how. That's all about thoughts and feelings, with the actions almost always off the page (Louisa's fall being a rare example of something dramatic happening in front of us)

Am I being sexist to suggest that Captain Aubrey appeals more to men, while Captain Wentworth appeals more to women?

In the middle, appealing to both, is Captain Hornblower. We see the action, and we also are privy to Hornblower's feelings, which are an essential part of the story, because his sense of inadequacy and his ruthless self-criticism drive him to be ever better.

Thoughts, people?]]> Linden Potter Tue, 19 Jan 2010 06:37:18 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30116,30116#msg-30116 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30116,30116#msg-30116
No clues can be available to the detective that are not available to the reader.

The novel can never take the Point of View of the murderer (or it would give the secret away).

Amid these rules was this one: "No Chinamen can be involved in any way."]]> Bruce Potter Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:47:55 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30109,30109#msg-30109 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30109,30109#msg-30109 [www.abebooks.co.uk]

I'll add one more reason: there are books I am saving up for later, like the man who hasn't read "Persuasion" because he always wants to have one Jane AUsten book left to read.]]> Linden Potter Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:34:29 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30036,30036#msg-30036 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,30036,30036#msg-30036
Although it was not planned it was rather an ambitious undertaking but I am very glad I read them simultaneously (if you ignore the longueurs). Generally regarded as two of the great novels they are definitely amongst the top modernist novels.

So, the verdict. Well, summarising Proust was a Monty Python sport for good reason. But I will have a go. Of the two, despite its prodigious length (twelve volumes in my translation, seven in the original) Proust was by far the easier to read. It only took me so long because I did not force myself through any of it wheras I would not have finished Ulysses if I had not gritted my teeth and ploughed through at various points.

And it seemed to me to be the one that needed cutting least. Not that it could not have done with a trim. Apparantly Proust always added more when he revised them
so perhaps it is as well that he was too ill to completely sort out the final volume Time Regained.

On the other hand it certainly shows that the latter part of the book and especially Time Regained, was not really finished. It is riddled with repetition and inconsistancy.

There are more general problems. Proust is absolutely rubbish at plotting. Marcel the narrator, sometimes becomes close to omniscient telling you about things he has no way of knowing. This actually works fine, but unfortunately, from time to time, he loses his nerve and comes up with a completely unconvincing device for how he found this stuff out. So in the last volume, walking about in wartime Paris, he gets lost and very thirsty he goes to the only open hotel which turns out to be a homosexual sadomasochistic brothel where he gets to see the Baron De Charlus, an important character, being flogged. The whole thing is completely unconvincing and unnecessary, as he tells us all sorts of things about other characters without explaining how he knows it.

Joyce is much more consistent and commits no such glaring errors. He doesnt need to as, though Bloom is the central point of view character he is quite happy to flit into the minds of Stephen Daedalus, Molly Bloom and others.

Ulysses is much harder to read despite Proust's famously endless sentences and long forays into sometimes obscure philosophical musing because Joyce keeps changing the method and style and, whilst Proust is like a gently flowing stream, Joyce is a foaming torrent of verbiage.

You will discern that I liked Proust more than Joyce. Joyce is, it seems to me, a terrible show off. Proust might sometimes seem like a show off but he isn't really IMO. He is seriously concerned with his aesthetic philosophy, he thinks it is worthwhile and his literature is worthwhile and he does not disguise the fact (though at times he makes it clear he is not claiming his own literature as great when he talks about realising what he must to to make great literature). Joyce is like the hyperactive prodigally clever boy at a Christmas party who has had too much sugar. He babbles and makes stupid juvenile puns all the time and it gets very wearing. He also knows lots of stuff, because he really is clever and knows Greek and Latin and is brilliant with words so he stuffs it all in.

I think the idea of making Bloom a hero like Ulysses but one who is wandering around Dublin in a day rather than returning home over years is risible really. As a plot device Joyce only uses it when it suits him but the parallel is abandoned when it doesnt. It is impossible to imagine the Ulysses of the Odyssey staying out of Ithica out of diffidence and thus allowing the suitors to have it off with his wife. Blazes Boylan would be gutted with a cheese knife in short order if Bloom had anything in common with Ulysses.

Having said that, I think the idea that the ordinary is heroic, that the perigrinations and thoughts of a Jewish Dub ad seller are in modern times as worthy a subject of literature as the great Greek heroes is fine. Readers of Jane Austen might not think that this is such a revolutionary idea though.

This was, of course, one of the themes of the Impressionists and in I think both writers owe a great deal to impressionist paintings. I had got a very clear idea that Proust was attempting a sort of impressionist painting with words in Within a Budding Grove ( À l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs) and indeed Proust says so explicitly in Time Regained, though Scott Moncrief's translation is far from literal so I need to check this in the new translation.

Obviously there is an enormous amount to say about both books and I don't want to go on forever. What I will say is that I thought the effort was worthwhile in both. I think both are truly amongst the greatest works of literature. For all that I found them (but Joyce especially) infuriating both actually made me look at the world, or my consciousness which amounts to the same thing, differently.

I think Ulysses could have been one quarter the length and much easier to read and have been a better book and I think maybe a quarter or so could have been shaved off Proust without losing anything. But I guess neither were exactly editable in the normal way and you get what you get with prodigies. I guess I should be grateful that Proust doesn't keep farting and capering around like Joyce.

Hard work, perhaps, but sometimes what you get out is in proportion to what you put in, and I think that both books repayed the effort with interest.

Mind you, despite being aware that I missed endless clever-clever allusions and references in Ulysses, I sincerely doubt if I will be re-reading it. But A La Recherche de Temps Perdu?

You know, I think I might just find out how much that newer translation is.]]> Spencer Potter Tue, 12 Jan 2010 09:37:46 -0700 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,29867,29867#msg-29867 http://www.dregston.com/boards/read.php?16,29867,29867#msg-29867
I've done the draft of the first set of notes, and I'd welcome some critical comments (and I do mean critical, since I want to find out the mistakes before the notes go out rather than afterwards)

The study groups range from Austenmaniacs like us to those who might be reading "Persuasion" for the first time.

If anyone fancies taking a squiz, can you e-mail me at
lindensd@bigpond.net.au
and I'll send the first set to you]]> Linden Potter Tue, 19 Jan 2010 06:30:42 -0700